Comments on: Entrecard - the only question is "Why?" http://www.sephyroth.net/2008/04/entrecard-the-only-question-is-why/ Header images in 39 flavors! Mon, 6 Oct 2008 14:00:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Snoskred http://www.sephyroth.net/2008/04/entrecard-the-only-question-is-why/#comment-1733 Snoskred Fri, 11 Apr 2008 04:25:18 +0000 http://www.sephyroth.net/2008/04/entrecard-the-only-question-is-why/#comment-1733 It makes absolutely no sense to me. I had already lost a fair bit of interest in Entrecard and this will surely do the trick of losing *any* interest I had in it. Sigh, another good thing bites the dust. :( It makes absolutely no sense to me. I had already lost a fair bit of interest in Entrecard and this will surely do the trick of losing *any* interest I had in it.

Sigh, another good thing bites the dust. :(

]]> By: Lightening http://www.sephyroth.net/2008/04/entrecard-the-only-question-is-why/#comment-1727 Lightening Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:04:33 +0000 http://www.sephyroth.net/2008/04/entrecard-the-only-question-is-why/#comment-1727 I can't even get my head around it all. And I can't seem to load many sites containing Entrecard at the moment. Aaarrrrgggghhhh. I'm just hoping in a few days it'll all settle down and make some sense. I'm a "one change at a time" kind of person. Allows me to get used to each change gradually. I too had found myself in a nice groove of dropping around 100 cards a day and was happy with where my ad price was sitting. Now I don't even know what ad price the cards that have applied for advertising are even paying me. I can’t even get my head around it all. And I can’t seem to load many sites containing Entrecard at the moment. Aaarrrrgggghhhh. I’m just hoping in a few days it’ll all settle down and make some sense. I’m a “one change at a time” kind of person. Allows me to get used to each change gradually. I too had found myself in a nice groove of dropping around 100 cards a day and was happy with where my ad price was sitting. Now I don’t even know what ad price the cards that have applied for advertising are even paying me.

]]> By: cellobella http://www.sephyroth.net/2008/04/entrecard-the-only-question-is-why/#comment-1725 cellobella Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:30:35 +0000 http://www.sephyroth.net/2008/04/entrecard-the-only-question-is-why/#comment-1725 Doesn't the new pricing structure force people to clear their inboxes? I must say that I didn't see the notice of the change and was rather bemused to see my price jump to over 4000... I couldn't work out why but now - thanks to you - I know to clear out all my ad requests. The thing was... in the "olden" days you might choose to look at the price of the ad as an indicator of traffic, now it's an indicator of laziness!! :) Doesn’t the new pricing structure force people to clear their inboxes?

I must say that I didn’t see the notice of the change and was rather bemused to see my price jump to over 4000… I couldn’t work out why but now - thanks to you - I know to clear out all my ad requests.

The thing was… in the “olden” days you might choose to look at the price of the ad as an indicator of traffic, now it’s an indicator of laziness!!

:)

]]> By: phirate http://www.sephyroth.net/2008/04/entrecard-the-only-question-is-why/#comment-1723 phirate Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:21:14 +0000 http://www.sephyroth.net/2008/04/entrecard-the-only-question-is-why/#comment-1723 The Why is actually the simplest question to answer. The old system wasn't doing a good job. It was based on a very limited merit (I like that term) system, which only had a weak correlation with the actual quality of the blog itself. This correlation was further weakened by the rise of reciprocal dropping, where your advertising price now become essentially a factor of how often you dropped (or gave the appearance of dropping) on others. The new system rewards more diverse behavior, you can increase your visibility on Entrecard alone, or you can improve your blog, or your site statistics, or any number of other mechanisms - all of which can be taken into account by buyers. The question of the pricing scale is somewhat different. The primary effect of a shallow slope is not to reduce prices, but to increase the number of ads that can be in the system at any given time. At the moment, the average queue length is 7, which means we have "space" at this price level for 50,000 ads purchased. If we halved the prices across the board (assuming for a moment that we weren't in the state of flux that we are in immediately post-change), the average queue length would double and we'd have space for 100,000 ads, but the final result would be the same - once the queue lengths hit the average, the number of ads in or out of the system would remain static at roughly 7,000 ads per day. The question at the end then is simply one of balance between the benefits of a finer grain (more accurate price) and the benefits of a shorter queue length (more dynamic market with a faster response to changes in your performance). We took the current choice because it seemed both the best, and the simplest, balance between the two, but it is fortunately something we can slowly and carefully change over time in response to user feedback. Our sole concern at this time is to get the new structure settled so that we can see how well our predictions worked out in practice, and then so we can begin responding to any remaining concerns in a sane fashion. We freely admit that our communication on this issue was not what it should have been - we didn't even realize how many people we hadn't managed to get the message out to until it had happened - and we will not compound the errors by wavering all over the place on such a sensitive issue, it's slow and careful on pricing from here on out. Nearby will return in a more effective form tho, I promise :) The Why is actually the simplest question to answer. The old system wasn’t doing a good job. It was based on a very limited merit (I like that term) system, which only had a weak correlation with the actual quality of the blog itself. This correlation was further weakened by the rise of reciprocal dropping, where your advertising price now become essentially a factor of how often you dropped (or gave the appearance of dropping) on others.

The new system rewards more diverse behavior, you can increase your visibility on Entrecard alone, or you can improve your blog, or your site statistics, or any number of other mechanisms - all of which can be taken into account by buyers.

The question of the pricing scale is somewhat different. The primary effect of a shallow slope is not to reduce prices, but to increase the number of ads that can be in the system at any given time. At the moment, the average queue length is 7, which means we have “space” at this price level for 50,000 ads purchased. If we halved the prices across the board (assuming for a moment that we weren’t in the state of flux that we are in immediately post-change), the average queue length would double and we’d have space for 100,000 ads, but the final result would be the same - once the queue lengths hit the average, the number of ads in or out of the system would remain static at roughly 7,000 ads per day.

The question at the end then is simply one of balance between the benefits of a finer grain (more accurate price) and the benefits of a shorter queue length (more dynamic market with a faster response to changes in your performance). We took the current choice because it seemed both the best, and the simplest, balance between the two, but it is fortunately something we can slowly and carefully change over time in response to user feedback.

Our sole concern at this time is to get the new structure settled so that we can see how well our predictions worked out in practice, and then so we can begin responding to any remaining concerns in a sane fashion. We freely admit that our communication on this issue was not what it should have been - we didn’t even realize how many people we hadn’t managed to get the message out to until it had happened - and we will not compound the errors by wavering all over the place on such a sensitive issue, it’s slow and careful on pricing from here on out.

Nearby will return in a more effective form tho, I promise :)

]]> By: Ian http://www.sephyroth.net/2008/04/entrecard-the-only-question-is-why/#comment-1721 Ian Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:45:47 +0000 http://www.sephyroth.net/2008/04/entrecard-the-only-question-is-why/#comment-1721 I think the new pricing system reflects supply and demand better and it will be interesting to see how it pans out over the next week or so. I don't mind the price escalator but I'm inclined to think the double, double, double .... formula is a bit crude and will need to be refined. It will be interesting to see how well some of the prices set on day 1 of the new pricing system go over time. I think realistically they'll all drop to a point of affordability with not much getting above 512. Even there I'd be hesitant to buy much - I think the trick is to look for popular blogs that have a short waiting list (I believe the popularity order in the categories is still based on number of drops received) ...and I think you can find good bargains if you're looking at the right time - makes me think some sort of sniping application would be a goer - like with Ebay, so you could set it to bid on ads with > x popularity if price < y, or that sort of thing. I think the new pricing system reflects supply and demand better and it will be interesting to see how it pans out over the next week or so. I don’t mind the price escalator but I’m inclined to think the double, double, double …. formula is a bit crude and will need to be refined. It will be interesting to see how well some of the prices set on day 1 of the new pricing system go over time. I think realistically they’ll all drop to a point of affordability with not much getting above 512. Even there I’d be hesitant to buy much - I think the trick is to look for popular blogs that have a short waiting list (I believe the popularity order in the categories is still based on number of drops received) …and I think you can find good bargains if you’re looking at the right time - makes me think some sort of sniping application would be a goer - like with Ebay, so you could set it to bid on ads with > x popularity if price < y, or that sort of thing.

]]> By: Ben Barden http://www.sephyroth.net/2008/04/entrecard-the-only-question-is-why/#comment-1719 Ben Barden Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:13:14 +0000 http://www.sephyroth.net/2008/04/entrecard-the-only-question-is-why/#comment-1719 I think the new pricing system has the potential to be a lot better than the old system. Where I think it falls down is in the doubling of prices beyond the first few stops on the price meter. 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256 and even 512 are reasonably acceptable prices (though the jumps increase too much at the end). But then it goes to 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384, ... and anything above that is even crazier. I was the one who raised the drops inbox ideas, and I was very glad to see the changes going ahead. This happened in one of the developer chats at the weekend. The pricing system may need work but the developer chats were so worthwhile that I personally think they offset the problems with the pricing, at least partially. The real test, both with WordPress 2.5 and the Entrecard pricing system, is whether our concerns are heard and changes are made as a result. Sure, it wouldn't be great if huge changes were made in the future, then hastily changed, when getting feedback in the first place could have got things right first time. But for now, I'd like to know what the developers of the respective systems will do next before I decide how I feel about the changes in the long-term. By the way, I think you forgot to finish your post. :) I think the new pricing system has the potential to be a lot better than the old system. Where I think it falls down is in the doubling of prices beyond the first few stops on the price meter. 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256 and even 512 are reasonably acceptable prices (though the jumps increase too much at the end). But then it goes to 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384, … and anything above that is even crazier.

I was the one who raised the drops inbox ideas, and I was very glad to see the changes going ahead. This happened in one of the developer chats at the weekend. The pricing system may need work but the developer chats were so worthwhile that I personally think they offset the problems with the pricing, at least partially.

The real test, both with WordPress 2.5 and the Entrecard pricing system, is whether our concerns are heard and changes are made as a result. Sure, it wouldn’t be great if huge changes were made in the future, then hastily changed, when getting feedback in the first place could have got things right first time. But for now, I’d like to know what the developers of the respective systems will do next before I decide how I feel about the changes in the long-term.

By the way, I think you forgot to finish your post. :)

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